Front Differential Vibrates/humming 60 mph - PICS added

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swift1
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Front Differential Vibrates/humming 60 mph - PICS added

Postby swift1 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:39 pm

I purchased a used 2006 PF about a year ago and replaced alot of worn out parts such as shocks, springs, rear LCA's, spring buckets, rear Bilstein, airlift bags, tie rod ends, belt tensioner, new fan belt, front monroe quickstruts, new sway bar links and rubber bushings, upgraded to 17" 265/65/17 tires, changed all U joints, changed all fluids but still had this highway high frequency vibration that I feel from underneath the PF.

I can feel it in the steering wheel and in the seat but it felt it wasn't directly related to the wheel balance or alignment as I had these done and everything is tight on this PF, CV axles are good, driveshafts good. I've done
alot of investigating on forums and so I put the front end on jacks and laid there and spun the front tires and started to hear a noise from the front differential, a faint hum that is magnified at speed, when spinning the front wheels I could hear a few faint clunks on the left/drivers side, there is about a 12" diff shaft that connects to the left CV axle shaft.

I made an appointment at a reputable private garage and had the owner with 40+ years experience take it for a test drive and put it on the hoist where they can put the PF in drive and with one of his mechanics in the driver's seat and put it in drive and checked out the driveline and he came back and told me its in your front differential is vibrating and makes a humming noise. He said everything else is good except the front diff has a vibration and hum.

Has anyone ever heard of this and I'm not sure if there are worn bearings or parts in the diff where the inner CV axle shaft seats into...hmmm? I'm not sure but any comments or previous experience with front diff noises/clunks and road hum would be appreciated.

I also read a couple post that some have had a clunk in colder weather from the diff/trans and couldn't ever figure it out. Living in Canada in during this winter this happened to me twice this winter where a loud clunk occurred at highway speed in snowy conditions and cold -10 deg F.

My 4WD light sometimes comes on but goes off after I turn truck off or change from 2WD, auto, 4WD. This is rare and only occurs about 1-2 times/year.

Also, the rad is the same serial # that is prone to cracking but I have bypassed it so the lines go from the trans to the external cooler and put caps over the bottom of the rad inlet/outlets.

My main concern is this highway speed road hum from the high frequency vibrating front differential ??? Is there a repair or replacement of some parts in the diff. I'm not putting alot of money into this as I guess on a long road trip I would put up the with high speed vibration and humming noise. I thought it might be the aerodynamics of the PF but no, it's definitively from the front diff.
Last edited by swift1 on Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.


TooTallMike
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Postby TooTallMike » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:06 am

Have you checked the fluid in the diff and/or inspected the magnet on the drain plug for debris or shavings?

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swift1
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fluid drained - added pics

Postby swift1 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:23 pm

I did drain the front diff fluid, it was 75-90 synthetic that I replaced 8 months ago after buying this PF. I really dont' understand what could be vibrating/humming in there at highway speed but maybe someone with experience could chime in.Thanks...here are some pics.

Just pulled plug, has some muddy gunk on magnet.

Image

Wiped drain plug clean with paper towel, black gunk wiped off it.

Image

Drained front diff fluid after 8 months, still looked transparent while draining but has a muddy gray color.

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Comparing used fluid with gunk from plug.

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Poured used fluid in clear jar.

Image

Image

Lastly, showing new fluid vs drained fluid.

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How does this used fluid look?
Any ideas about a vibrating front differential and humming/howling noise at 60mph or highway speed?
Once again a high frequency vibration felt underneath vehicle, distant feeling in steering wheel and had wheels balanced/alignment already. As I mentioned it was check and diagnosed at front differential but what is in the front diff that might wear?

TooTallMike
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Postby TooTallMike » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:58 am

Great job on the pics. You mentioned that you changed out the u joints. Before you installed the shafts did you check the free play of the shaft ends? I'm speaking from personal experience, I replaced a u joint and didn't do that and I still had a humming noise and squeak. I just pulled it out and whacked the yolk til it had free play all around and it was good to go. I will also say that the fluid shouldn't look like that after 8 months of use. Especially since the pf is rwd unless you're always in 4wd? I changed mine after who knows how long and the fluid was clean.

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smj999smj
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Postby smj999smj » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:08 pm

Even if the vehicle is in rear wheel drive mode, the front diff/axles/front driveshaft still turn while driving on this particular model. There's no lockup mechanism at the hubs (they are typical, wheel bearing hub assemblies) as it's all done in the transfer case.

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swift1
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Postby swift1 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:53 pm

Thanks to tootall and smj for your replies.
PF has rotary switch on dash from 2wd to auto to 4wd to 4lo.
In winter I drive in auto unless snow covered roads trail then 4wd.
In summer 2wd. I did note that....

When I picked of up my 4wd light was on but this has happened before. All that I did was stop turn pf off turn switch from 2wd to auto then back start up pf and it went away this has happen on another occasion or two in the past year I owned it. I’ve checked using scan tool for codes but nothing shows on my portable tool.

Other things I noticed is that over rough highway the steering is responsive but a little darty jumpy if you know what I mean.
In park, it’s smooth when put in drive you feel a bit of a vibrationhum when driveline engages. I did trans bypass and changed fluid twice for my own peace of mind. Don’t know all history of pf but owned by family for past 10 years, service was good.

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smj999smj
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Postby smj999smj » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:05 pm

Does your portable scan tool read only powertrain codes like a typical code reader or can it read 4WD codes, as well? If not, you'll need to get a capable scan tool to read the codes or use the manual procedure and check the codes in the FSM:

1. Warm up engine.
2. Move A/T selector lever to “P†position.
3. Turn 4WD shift switch to “2WD†position.
4. Turn ignition switch “ON†and “OFF†at least twice, and then turn ignition switch “OFFâ€.
5. Turn 4WD shift switch to “AUTO†position.
6. Turn ignition switch “ONâ€. (Do not start engine.)
7. 4WD warning lamp ON.
If 4WD warning lamp does not turn ON, refer to TF-122, "4WD Warning Lamp Does Not Turn ON" .
8. Move A/T selector lever to “R†position.
9. Turn 4WD shift switch to “2WDâ€, “AUTO†and “2WD†in order.
10. Move A/T selector lever to “D†position.
11. Turn 4WD shift switch to “LOCKâ€, “AUTO†and “LOCK†in order.
12. Move A/T selector lever to “N†position.
13. Turn 4WD shift switch to “AUTO†position.
14. Move A/T selector lever to “P†position.
15. Read the flickering of 4WD warning lamp.

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swift1
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4WD light blinked ON/OFF for 3 secs intervals.

Postby swift1 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:48 pm

I followed your instructions and I assume that the LOCK position is 4wd high so when you mentioned to go to LOCK this is the switch position I used so for line 11, I went from 4wd to auto to 4wd.
Line 7 - yes the light stayed on.
No I don't have a high tech scan tool, just a simple code reader.

I repeated this 3X's and after line 14 the 4WD light continued blinking, it would stay ON for 3 secs, then go off for 3 secs, then come back on for 3 secs, then go off for 3 secs, then on again for 3 secs, then off again so this lasted for about 1min+ until I drove around again and did the same thing.

The 4WD light on the dash did blinked on/off for 3 sec intervals.

Image

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swift1
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Postby swift1 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:00 pm

So I was out tonight and the 4WD light on the dash is on and seem to stay on after I went to two different stores and turned off/started the PF. I'll try and go somewhere and get it scanned with a 4WD scanner for a code, something I don't have, maybe one of the local autoparts store or 4WD shop might do for nothing or cheaply to get a code. I'll let everyone know once I get a code.

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smj999smj
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Postby smj999smj » Tue May 01, 2018 8:12 am

As I read that you have an SE model, I realized that the procedure I posted isn't going to work for you; it's for an LE model with the AUTO mode transmission. A 2006 SE will have the manual transfer case. I'm not sure if there is a "manual code procedure" for that particular transfer case, so it would be best to consult the factory service manual, or, have the codes read by a capable reader, which would be available at most professional auto repair shops, dealers, or, you could purchase one if you choose to spend a couple of hundred dollars, if it's worth it to you to have.

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swift1
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Postby swift1 » Wed May 02, 2018 9:23 am

I turned the switch from 2WD to AUTO, then back to 2WD and the 4WD light on the dash went out so I'm assuming a "code" is stored in the computer which I'll get a shop to scan when I decide to swap out the front diff as money is tight these days.

Based on the color and sludge from the front diff, would anyone care to comment if that color/sludge is normal after 8 months of use. Thanks!

kevinthefro
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Re: fluid drained - added pics

Postby kevinthefro » Mon May 07, 2018 8:41 pm

swift1 wrote:How does this used fluid look?
That oil looks fine. The gunk on the plug is fine too. I pulled four differentials last month and my rear plug had way more metal on it, the other three (two fronts and one rear) were on par with your plug and your oil.

The symptoms sound exactly like a driveshaft that is out of balance. I experienced that on one of my old cars.

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swift1
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Update

Postby swift1 » Fri May 11, 2018 7:36 pm

Well I didn’t scan anything but had to take it into a shop and they had to use heat to remove the front drive shaft. I told them I’m trouble shooting a highway speedvibration.

So then I took it on the freeway and Viola! No more vibrations!

There is still a resonance sound from the front diff but it seems like this is normal for this year and /or Titans had front diff issues but I’m not expert just hearsay but this is 100% better without the front driveshaft, she’s silky smooth.

So Kev above you were right in saying driveshaft. I asked another mechanic and he said oil is dirty but fine.

So for now no 4wd but what to do with drive shaft, most likely have to get it balanced. U joints seem fine after 8 months but I’ll ask another mechanic his opinion. I think the out of balance drive shaft was also giving that humming noise in front diff, hence the first mechanic I took it too told me front diff is suspect. So I realize there will always be a little bit of a hum from front diff but with a balance drive shaft it shouldn’t give that bass like deafening noise and vibration in steering wheel.

Rides buttery smooth in 2wd. :D
Happy Camper for now....

kevinthefro
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Postby kevinthefro » Fri May 11, 2018 8:09 pm

When the U-joints were replaced - the shop could have accidentally flipped one of the the flanges 180 degrees. That could have upset the balance.
But yeah, a driveshaft shop can sort it out.


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