kevinthefro wrote:

RedZeppelin wrote:Could you swap just the gears instead of the full diff to get the same effect? Z1 Motorsports sells a 4.083 set for the 03+ G35/G37 so I'm Awondering if this would be a direct swap into a V6 R200 rear (besides the need for a ring gear spacer since the carrier is 3.54 and down).

Yes, if money is no object, 4.083/4.10 would be my first choice https://ruggedrocksoffroad.com/nissan-p ... _1476.html, but it's about $1,900 for the front and rear gears and install kits, plus the 3.69 carrier for the rear, plus installation. Versus $500 and DIY labor to change both front and rear to 3.69.

Regarding the spacer, I spoke to Steve at Rugged Rocks at length about that and to use the 3.54 and down carrier requires a really thick spacer and longer ring gear bolts so it is not ideal. For ~$100 you can get the correct carrier out of a donor G35/G37 3.69. Oooor...for ~$1000 you can get an ARB locker with the correct offset for 3.69/4.083 - also my first choice if some money fell into my lap!

Now for the front R180A, there is a special 4.10 ring gear that is extra thick and goes into the 3.54 and down carrier without a spacer. Both 4x4 Parts and Rugged Rocks sell this R&P set.

Thupertrooper wrote:Very nice research work. There is a thing as a titan swap that alot of offroad guys with frontiers and xterras do to get more suspension travel and thinking that alot have 6spd trans so you could also just swap the gears or entire diffs with them. Couple frontier and xterra forums out there. I ran ~35" tires on stock 3.36 gears and it wasnt too bad but 3.69 gears would of helped.

I've seen the Titan swap for the front end, but for the rear that would require conversion from independent rear suspension to solid axle and that would be quite a project and a lot of bucks. Lots of gear options for that M226 axle though.

Sorry for the resurrection. With regards to the 3.69 gears and G35 carrier: is that carrier supposed to work with ARB RD196 without having to use a spacer? I'm working with a c200k diff.

stascom wrote:

kevinthefro wrote:

RedZeppelin wrote:Could you swap just the gears instead of the full diff to get the same effect? Z1 Motorsports sells a 4.083 set for the 03+ G35/G37 so I'm Awondering if this would be a direct swap into a V6 R200 rear (besides the need for a ring gear spacer since the carrier is 3.54 and down).

Yes, if money is no object, 4.083/4.10 would be my first choice https://ruggedrocksoffroad.com/nissan-p ... _1476.html, but it's about $1,900 for the front and rear gears and install kits, plus the 3.69 carrier for the rear, plus installation. Versus $500 and DIY labor to change both front and rear to 3.69.

Regarding the spacer, I spoke to Steve at Rugged Rocks at length about that and to use the 3.54 and down carrier requires a really thick spacer and longer ring gear bolts so it is not ideal. For ~$100 you can get the correct carrier out of a donor G35/G37 3.69. Oooor...for ~$1000 you can get an ARB locker with the correct offset for 3.69/4.083 - also my first choice if some money fell into my lap!

Now for the front R180A, there is a special 4.10 ring gear that is extra thick and goes into the 3.54 and down carrier without a spacer. Both 4x4 Parts and Rugged Rocks sell this R&P set.

Thupertrooper wrote:Very nice research work. There is a thing as a titan swap that alot of offroad guys with frontiers and xterras do to get more suspension travel and thinking that alot have 6spd trans so you could also just swap the gears or entire diffs with them. Couple frontier and xterra forums out there. I ran ~35" tires on stock 3.36 gears and it wasnt too bad but 3.69 gears would of helped.

I've seen the Titan swap for the front end, but for the rear that would require conversion from independent rear suspension to solid axle and that would be quite a project and a lot of bucks. Lots of gear options for that M226 axle though.

Sorry for the resurrection. With regards to the 3.69 gears and G35 carrier: is that carrier supposed to work with ARB RD196 without having to use a spacer? I'm working with a c200k diff.

Stas: Welcome to the Path!
This is a great thread and well worth the resurrection!!!

stascom wrote:Sorry for the resurrection. With regards to the 3.69 gears and G35 carrier: is that carrier supposed to work with ARB RD196 without having to use a spacer? I'm working with a c200k diff.

The ARB RD196 is a carrier. The stock carrier is discarded when you put in a locking carrier.

The RD196 carrier is for ratios 3.36 and down. For 3.45 and up, a ring gear spacer would be required.
Alternatively, the RD201 carrier will work with 3.54 and up, and will fit in the C200k with some spacer bearings and some machining.
Rugged Rocks has done it both ways, and prefers the latter.

So, yeah, if and when I get an air locker, I will discard the G35 carrier and transfer the G35 3.69 ring gear to the RD 201. If you're going straight to an air locker you can harvest the 3.69 ring and pinion from a G35 or G37 or 370Z and toss the housing and carrier. That would still be significantly cheaper than buying a new ring and pinion set.

kevinthefro wrote:

stascom wrote:Sorry for the resurrection. With regards to the 3.69 gears and G35 carrier: is that carrier supposed to work with ARB RD196 without having to use a spacer? I'm working with a c200k diff.

The ARB RD196 is a carrier. The stock carrier is discarded when you put in a locking carrier.

The RD196 carrier is for ratios 3.36 and down. For 3.45 and up, a ring gear spacer would be required.
Alternatively, the RD201 carrier will work with 3.54 and up, and will fit in the C200k with some spacer bearings and some machining.
Rugged Rocks has done it both ways, and prefers the latter.

So, yeah, if and when I get an air locker, I will discard the G35 carrier and transfer the G35 3.69 ring gear to the RD 201. If you're going straight to an air locker you can harvest the 3.69 ring and pinion from a G35 or G37 or 370Z and toss the housing and carrier. That would still be significantly cheaper than buying a new ring and pinion set.

Awesome info! Thanks a lot!
"The ARB RD196 is a carrier. The stock carrier is discarded when you put in a locking carrier." Duh... I've been reading way too much in the last few days!
I'm doing pretty much what you've done but with an Xterra. Trying to not shell out $700 for ring and pinion on each end And I don't want 4.10+, just need to offset the 33s. I'm getting an open diff from G37 right now with 3.69 gears for the rear ($150). Found the front R180 from a Frontier with 3.69 ($510, ouch! but it's a "refurbished", low-mile unit). I have a Lokka in the front of the X with 3.13 now. Will either swap gears or the Lokka, depending on the condition of the new diff.
I've got a great deal on RD196, so I would like to use it. Not sure how to go about getting a spacer of the correct dimensions. I'm DIYing everything so far. That "some machining" part is not a possibility for me (with RD201). But I can sandwich a spacer between ring and carrier. I'm hoping it's an easy task, given that 4.10s need pinion shaving *sometimes*.

Stascom, glad you got what you needed!
Don't be a stranger!

stascom wrote: I've got a great deal on RD196, so I would like to use it. Not sure how to go about getting a spacer of the correct dimensions. I'm DIYing everything so far. That "some machining" part is not a possibility for me (with RD201). But I can sandwich a spacer between ring and carrier. I'm hoping it's an easy task, given that 4.10s need pinion shaving *sometimes*.

Maybe you could get Rugged Rocks to sell you a ring gear spacer, or tell you the thickness. Talk to Steve, the owner. He's pretty amiable, even if you're not making a purchase.

I think, "in theory", the stock carrier and the RD196 should have the same offset, so the spacer should be thick enough to bring the RD196 ring gear flange to the same offset as the G37 carrier ring gear flange.

So if you measure the distance from the ring gear mounting flange to the left side of the carrier on the Xterra, then do the same on the G37 unit, and subtract the G37 from the Xterra, that should be the thickness needed. In theory.

It's a lot - more than 10mm, I think.


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I know this is an old thread but I thought I'd post an update for those interested. I've been compiling self-driven research and communications with ARB for several months now and I think the results are going to be beneficial.

The rear locker for an R51 with the R200 diff has long been elusive, but knowing now that this swap will work brings it within the realm of possibility. Currently the RD201 locker is the best candidate, but has come with some limitations to work with a stock R200, namely the carrier split and ring gear bolt size. As kevinthefro mentioned, the holes on the locker needed to be drilled out to 13mm to accept the ring gear bolts. Normally the bolt size is 12mm according to the spec sheet found here, but since we've gotten rid of the stock carrier in favor of an infiniti carrier, the ring gear bolt sizes are the smaller 12mm. This page mentions the R51 specifically:

2004-2007 R51 Pathfinder 2WD – R200 – 3.133 (uses 13mm ring gear bolts instead of regular R200 12mm ones)

Now I'm not positive but I'm led to believe that this carrier has the smaller ring gear bolts, meaning no drilling would be required. Next, we see on the spec sheet that it calls for a 31 spline axle with an OD of 32mm. This matches the rear axle that comes with the V6 pathy, and since the output shafts already fit into the carrier we know this is 99% likely going to fit the side gears.

The other issue was the side gear snap ring grooves. When I was swapping the diff it was a simple procedure to tap the output shafts out of the R200 carrier and then into the G35 carrier. The snap rings never came into play, and since this is an IRS setup the output shafts aren't going to have any lateral movement anyway so the snap ring isn't needed to retain them. Thus eliminating the need for a groove.

The final piece of the puzzle involves carrier split. In the application guide, it lists the Navara, Terrano, D21, and D22 as candidates for the RD201 locker. Based on everything I can find, the numerically lowest ratio for those models is 3.900, which is about 5.6% higher than the 3.692 we have acquired post-swap. ARB states that all ratios are supported, but this might be for anything with a ratio of 3.900 and up. This is the one unknown that I haven't been able to solve.

As more supporting evidence, here are some quotes from an email chain I started with ARB (I don't actually have a frontier, but I figured it would at least help start a dialogue):

Hi,

Here is the setup for what I'm trying to do. I have a 2012 Nissan Pathfinder that I have swapped the differentials for.

Front Differential: Nissan R180A with 3.692 gear ratio, 27 axle splines (suited for ARB RD180)
Rear Differential: Nissan R200 with 3.692 gear ratio, 31 axle splines

I also have a 2008 Nissan Frontier 4-cylinder, and while shopping for air lockers for the truck I noticed that Pathfinder has the same gear ratio, spline count, and ring gear diameter for the rear axle as the Frontier, listed below:

Rear Differential: Nissan C200 with 3.692 gear ratio, 31 axle splines

I want to know if there is a locker intended for use in the C200 (or C200k) that will fit the R200 in the Pathfinder. Or if there is a locker that isn't in the catalog that will work directly for an R200 differential with a 3.692 gear ratio.

Thanks

And here is what the ARB engineers had to say:

Hey Mark,

As far as I can tell he needs to use RD201 – 31 spline C200. The only thing that needs to be checked is the axle bore in the case – make sure that it matches the OE diff incase the shaft runs on that surface.

So unless Dan knows something else that could cause an issue, I don’t think he’ll have any problems.

Cheers,

stu

Since we know that the axle diameter, splines, and ring gear bolt size is the same, if we can figure out the carrier split and whether a 5.6% difference is within reason, then we have a winner for a rear locker. Overall this would cost somebody less than $2k (assuming $1k for locker, $100-200 for rear diff, and call it $700 for labor) and add an incredible amount of strength and capability to the platform. The other route you could do would to just get the ring and pinion set for a G35 in one of the matching C200 ratios (z1motorsports.com sells one in 3.900 for $595) and install it directly on the locker, but I'm not sure how it would mesh with the pinion gear, if at all.

I might do this as my next big project, but I'm very short on cash because I just pulled the trigger on an ARB bumper that was discounted 15% off (more details to come once it ships and arrives ). What are everyone's thoughts regarding this?

Hi Mark,

Regarding the carrier split, I'm not sure I'm following your 5.6% difference logic.
It's my understanding of ring and pinion sets in general that they match each other using the same carrier. So a 4:10 ring gear is thicker to compensate for the smaller pinion, compared to a 3.45 set, such that either one and anything in between will work on the same carrier. And then the other carrier works for any ratio from 3.33 to 2.whatever.
Unless I missed your point entirely...

Hey guys,

I did a lift and 33" tire upgrade thinking that i'd be fine not regearing but my gas mileage is under 12MPG city and around 15-16HWY. The power is okay but long climbs leave me screaming in 3rd gear or 2nd. I am seriously thinking about this 3.69 upgrade as it wouldn't be crazy to do from a cost stand point but i'd also include a Helical LSD for the rear. The Helical LSD with the ABLS would essentially "Lock up" on wheel lift. Its not a fully locked version but have seen some really impressive results. My question is: 1. DId you see a real gain in performance? 2. Did you notice any MPG's returning? 3. Would you just go to a 3.90? and lastly, 4. Does anyone know of a Helical LSD for the 180A so I can have one front and back? See the video link below for an example of performance with front and rear LSD and traction control. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-6u8w0 ... e=youtu.be

I've looked into this myself as I'll be in the same situation as you. I'll probably just go with a 3.36 ring & pinion set for front and rear though. Still haven't figured out if I want to go with ARB or something else. Filthy Motorsports has a cable driven locker that I'm interested in on their site, but I'm not sure if it'll fit in our diffs. I'm not there yet, so when the day comes, I'll inquire.

As to why I'm responding to you. If you want to know what gear ratio you need to go with so it drives like stock again, use the equation: (New Tire Size in Inches x Factory Gear Ratio) divided by (Factory Tire Size in inches) = the gear ratio you need.

For instance, I plan to move on up to 35" tires in a couple years so my calculation is 35 x 2.93 / 30.5 = 3.36 gear ratio. Hope that helps instead of just guessing what you might need. I guess if you want more acceleration, shorter gears, and higher RPMs at highway speeds, you can always go with a higher gear ratio which would achieve the same thing of poor gas mileage and possibly causing your transmission to hunt for gears or possibly just screaming at you too.

I am currently in the process of regearing my Pathfinder to 3.69 gearing. Links to that process - viewtopic.php?f=33&t=20627

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma9b0f9qsbA&t=777s

Some advice for those doing this:

1. The G35/G37 R200 must be an OPEN DIFFERENTIAL ONLY. an LSD from a G35/G37 with 3.69 gearing will not work! The LSD carrier uses shortened axles AKA stub axles. They do not make stub axles for the R51 pathfinder which is unfortunate.

2. Buy another R200 R51 Pathinder Rear Differential. That way if you decide to go back to stock gearing, you still have your original carrier. Use the other Rear Carrier as a parts carrier. Strip it down and swap over the parts you need for the G35/G37 R200 Differential.

3. Replace the Bearings, Seals, and Pinion Crush Spacer. It's generally recommended that you replace all of the bearings and seals on the R200 G35/G37 differential when you take it apart. That way, once everything is put back in the vehicle, you'll have a brand new R200 that you won't have to worry about leaking or damaging the bearings.

4. DO NOT USE AN IMPACT WRENCH TO TIGHTEN THE PINION NUT. The pinion nut uses a crush sleeve to set the bearing preload on the pinion. Using an Impact Wrench could crush the sleeve too much causing excessive preload on the bearings. Even if you loosen the pinion nut, the sleeve stays crushed. Too much preload on the bearings will wear them out and cause a complete failure of the differential. I suggest using a torque wrench and starting at a low torque spec. Then using a INCH/LBS preload gauge, measure the force it takes to spin the pinion by putting a 32mm socket on the pinion nut and connecting the 32 mm socket to the INCH/LBS gauge.

preload specs for the R200 carrier is as follows:

• pinion bearing preload torque 2.65 - 3.23 N·m (0.27 - 0.32 kg−m, 24 - 28 in-lb)
  
  Side bearing preload torque (reference value determined by drive gear bolt pulling force) 0.20 - 0.52 N·m (0.02 - 0.05 kg−m, 2 - 4 in-lb)
  Drive gear bolt pulling force (by spring gauge) 34.2 − 39.2 N (3.5 − 4 kg, 7.7 − 8.8 lb)
  
  Total preload torque (Total preload torque = drive pinion bearing preload torque + Side bearing preload torque) 2.84 - 3.75 N·m (0.29 - 0.38 kg−m, 26 - 33 in-lb)

5. Replace the G35/G37 Differential Bushings for Polyurethane ones from Whiteline. They are nicer and will allow for less carrier movement when its in gear or you are driving.

6. Replace the Subframe Diff bushings with polyurethane ones from Super Pro. These may be hard to get by because they are only sold in Australia. If you are willing to pay, these are a much better upgrade than the factory rubber ones. If not, new factory rubber bushings can be used.


PARTS REFERENCED IN THE POST:

R200 G35/G37 3.69 Carrier OPEN DIFFERENTIAL - https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... +Automatic

R200 Pathfinder Carrier - https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... fferential

Whiteline R200 Bushings - https://whitelineperformance.com/produc ... ushing-kit

Super pro Subframe Differential Bushings - https://superpro.com.au/find/superpro-d ... 00739/vid-

INCH/LBS Gauge - https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool ... lp_pl_dp_2

So...if i can source both front and rear diffs and carriers of an Xterra Offroad (i believe this is Pro-4X in the US it came with a locker at the back)...
Can i just swap the front one out?
Will the rear internals of the X be bolt on since i wouldnt need the carrier for obvious reasons
Insomnia kicked in and stumbled on this thread and it got me thinking......
Am i onto something or should i just can that thought

No the rear diff in an Xterra Pro-4x is not the C200K, Its the M226. Will not fit.

still going on about this as we are nearly ready to start purchasing items. Does anyone know a shop in So Cal that will do the work?

You can try reaching out to Rugged Rocks Offroad or California Mini-Truck.