Silver Bullet for warped rotors?

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jspitz
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Silver Bullet for warped rotors?

Postby jspitz » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:04 am

I'm done with my third set of front brakes. My rotors are so warped that I can't stand it anymore.

Factory originals: warped by 38k miles, replaced at 56k
Napa replacement rotors: warped by 80k, replaced at 106k
Mechanic's recommendation (they look like Power Slot): warped by 115k

Since the last set didn't last 10k, I probably could have had them replaced under warranty, but I'm done with that mechanic as well.

So far, I've dealt with crappy warped rotors until the pads were nearing their wear limits. I probably could have squeaked another 10k out of them if I wanted. Now at 123k, I'm over it and just want the junk off the car.

I don't consider myself overly hard on brakes - this is the only car I've had with any notable brake warpage. Lug nuts are always hand torqued, at least when I pull/rotate wheels. My typical commute is half 55 MPH country roads with moderate traffic, and half suburban - certainly not as gentle as freeway driving or all suburban.

So... what do I replace them with? Is there a silver bullet for this issue? Rotor and pad suggestions welcome.

EBC? Power Slot? Raybestos? Other?


skinny2
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Postby skinny2 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:47 am

Odd. It sounds like you're doing everything right, but not sure why they're wearing so fast. I get about 50k from pads and changed the rotors at 100k although they weren't vibrating. They were starting to look rusted along the edges where the pad bite so I swapped them out. I used Akebono pads and Wagner Premium rotors.

I'm not easy on my brakes either...I typically drive 50 miles of hilly/curvy state routes a day and about 8,000 miles a year of highway. Very little around town. Some towing mixed in.

Honestly it sounds like it won't matter what you buy. It's either a mechanical issue or your driving...although if you're not burning rotors on other cars it's probably not that if you drive the PF similarly. I guess I would recommend the Akebono since I know I'm not having issues with them and several other folks around here run them with no issues. They also come with the complete hardware kit and I always have everything cleaned and the fluid flushed at the same time.

not on the rug
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brakes

Postby not on the rug » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:21 pm

I like the premium series rotors from r1 concepts and the ebc greenstuff for pads.

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daytona675
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Postby daytona675 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:35 am

I agree something else is going on..sounds like a brake system issue like sticking calipers or collapsed lines. Have you done any suspension mods that would need disassembly of the front end? or when doing the brakes, have you (or your mechanic) EVER let the calipers hang by the brake hoses? if they're deteriorated inside, they could be keeping pressure to the caliper pistons, causing huge heat buildup/rotor warpage/excess wear. I would try bleeding the system 1st, get the dirty fluid out (could be some trash in a check valve somewhere) then wth the wheels back on but front still off the ground see how hard they are to turn. If you are 2wheel drive, the front should spin pretty freely. 4x4s have a little drag, but you should still be able to turn them fairly easy. I have seen this on countlees cars & motorcycles

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jspitz
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Postby jspitz » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:07 am

No suspension mods. No dangling calipers that I know of, but I've only had a mechanic replace brakes on this truck. Brake lines look fine. Fluid was replaced at 45 and 90k. No issues thus far with sticking calipers, it is a 4x4 and wheels spun pretty freely at my last rotation. Pad wear has been a little uneven - maybe inside faster than outside? - I can't remember, but from other threads here this sounds like normal for these trucks. Driver vs passenger side wear has been about uniform.

All 4 shocks and rear springs (one is cracked) will be replaced next week with Bilstein 4600 shocks and Nissan springs - still stock height. I'm going to ask the mechanic to check the brakes while he has the wheels off and the truck on the lift and pick his brain as well. I'll probably have him do something with them shortly. Just trying to figure out the best angle(s) of attack. While I'm throwing money at it, a partial flush and replacement lines won't hurt, except a little in the wallet.

A friend talked to buybrakes.com about this issue and they suggested that crappy/soft pads could be the culprit for two reasons - 1) leaving residue on the rotors, making them feel warped, and 2) being less efficient, requiring more effort to stop the truck, thus overheating the rotors. If this were the case, I'd think EBC Greenstuff or another decent metallic pad might help.

Thanks for all the input thus far.

slavabon
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Postby slavabon » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:59 pm

I went through a fe w sets rotors on my 06 and 2010. The cheaper the rotor, the faster it will warp seems to be the case in my experience. Rotors usually warp from overheating and rotors made of harder metal compounds will heat up more during braking and will warp faster. You want to pick something that is mid-grade when it comes to hard-soft quality of the metal compound. My local old-school mechanic recommended Wagner rotors and they have been holding up well for past two years.

bpk01
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Postby bpk01 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:24 pm

Do you go through a lot of automatic car washes?

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smj999smj
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Postby smj999smj » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:59 pm

I'm a big fan of the Akebono ACT Ceramic pads, which you can pick up at Rockauto.com. Akebono has been an original equipment supplier of brakes to Nissan for decades. I really like the Raybestos Professional Series Advanced Technology brake rotors, but I've used Wagner rotors on an 08 SE and have had no issues after 40,000 miles.

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disallow
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Postby disallow » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:52 am

I would look closer at the interaction between your selected brake pads as well as the rotors.

For instance, on my 98 civic, I had the brainiac idea to put 'lifetime pads' as provided by the mechanic. Sounded like a good idea at the time, I'll never spend another dime on brake pads, right?

Wrong!

Those pads were so hard, they warped my previously perfectly fine factory rotors within about 10k.

I've noticed that OE Brakes tend to be a softer compound that usually wears out in about 30-50k. I now always go for a 'middle of the road' brake pad, usually semi metallic.

I've had good luck with this strategy, and use the same strategy on my rotors. After the facftory rotors on my 05 pathy warped, I replaced them with mid-grade Centric from Rock Auto, both rotors and pads. 50k later, still going strong!

Hope that helps.

t

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jspitz
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Postby jspitz » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:55 am

As a follow-up:

I get very few automatic car washes - usually just a few in the winter to get NE Ohio salt and road grime off the truck.

I'm pretty convinced to go mid-grade (hardness) on the rotors, and thank all of you for the suggestions and experience.

The truck is scheduled in for the suspension work Thursday, so I'll see what the mechanic thinks after he looks at it, then back to scouring for parts and ordering.

Thanks.

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smj999smj
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Postby smj999smj » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:11 am

FYI, the original equipment pads are Hitachi ceramics. I got 84000 miles on the original pads on my 06LE 4WD and almost 90000 miles on the 08SE 4WD, so I'm not sure I agree with the "softer pad/30-50K lifespan" comment. Of course, pads life can be greatly affected by driving conditions, modifications to the vehicle and driving style. That said, the 06LE got genuine Nissan pads when they were replaced by the dealer and I experienced a low-speed squeal issue about 10000 miles later. I removed the pads and lubed the shims and the ends of the pads with copperslip (copper impregnated grease) and the squeal continued for another 3000 miles and then went away. Who knows? With the 08SE, I installed the Akebonos, which came with new hardware and moly grease, and never had any noise issues. If I were to ever replace either set again, I'd go with the Akebonos. They were also half the price of genuine Nissan pads.

not on the rug
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brakes

Postby not on the rug » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:28 pm

Just some food for thought...the pathy is a large heavy vehicle. It stops like crap. It's borderline irresponsible to drive the vehicle with factory brakes. I'd rather get some decent rotors and pads and maybe get less miles out of them, but know that when I need to stop, I can stop.

skinny2
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Re: brakes

Postby skinny2 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:39 pm

not on the rug wrote:Just some food for thought...the pathy is a large heavy vehicle. It stops like crap. It's borderline irresponsible to drive the vehicle with factory brakes. I'd rather get some decent rotors and pads and maybe get less miles out of them, but know that when I need to stop, I can stop.
You sure you don't have some sort of serious brake problem? Also keep in mind oversized tires, AT's, and a lift will impact your braking significantly. The PF is no sports car but it doesn't have dangerous braking at least in stock form. Testing results show it's similar to other SUV's and pickups from its era.

not on the rug
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Re: brakes

Postby not on the rug » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:03 am

skinny2 wrote: You sure you don't have some sort of serious brake problem? Also keep in mind oversized tires, AT's, and a lift will impact your braking significantly. The PF is no sports car but it doesn't have dangerous braking at least in stock form. Testing results show it's similar to other SUV's and pickups from its era.
similar to other pickups and suvs is fine as a comparison to pickups and other suvs. what i'm getting at, is that the braking capabilities of all of those vehicles is garbage. just because the pathy has similar numbers as the 4runner or ford f150, doesn't mean that those numbers are good. when I hit the brakes, I want to stop. period. do I expect it to stop like my G35? no. but I want it to perform like a champ. because when that little kid comes barreling down the driveway on his/her bike and in to the road, I want to be able to stop. (it happened to me, and believe me, factory brakes wouldn't have stopped me in time.) or when the dipshit 80 year old runs the stop sign and cuts me off (um, this morning on my way to work) I want to know that when I hit my brakes, I will stop.

skinny2
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Re: brakes

Postby skinny2 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:49 am

not on the rug wrote: similar to other pickups and suvs is fine as a comparison to pickups and other suvs. what i'm getting at, is that the braking capabilities of all of those vehicles is garbage. just because the pathy has similar numbers as the 4runner or ford f150, doesn't mean that those numbers are good. when I hit the brakes, I want to stop. period. do I expect it to stop like my G35? no. but I want it to perform like a champ.
It's funny you say it's "borderline irresponsible" to drive this with stock brakes but then you install parts that make it perform even worse. And then complain about the crappy braking. The "non-stock" rotors/pads you're running are not going to make a difference in an emergency situation. Certainly not enough to overcome bigger tires, sloppier suspension, and a taller height. They should help with repeated/fade issues, but the only way to really improve emergency braking is with larger calipers/discs/pads.

Somehow I've managed to put 110k miles on this car and not careen into anyone or anything, and I've owned quite a few high performance vehicles. It's just a matter of adjusting your driving to the vehicle. I need this to go off-road and haul people...I don't expect it to drive like a car. It would be great if it did, but I'm not going to tear the vehicle apart and replace everything when I can just slow down as necessary.


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