Armada Swap
Moderator: volvite
Armada Swap
i am looking into buyng a pathy. i curently have a 06 fronier with longtravel and all that good stuff. Has any one tried to swap the rear arms from an armada?
Hold on ....
Actually, an Armada swap is definitely possible. How do I know ...?
The V8 Pathy has the same underpinnings as the Armada. I have one.
Both have the same diffs. You can do the Titan/Armada UCA/LCA and axle swap up front, and do a rear Armada swap in the rear.
The V8 Pathy diffs can bolt on directly to the V6 Pathys.
I am really looking hard into doing this. At least, I can do the front Titan swap since I already have the same front diff (M205) as the Titan/Armada. Near the end of this year, 4x4parts will release a locker for the M205. Later, I can do the Armada swap for the rear since I already have the same rear as the Armada (R230).
The Pathy shares the exact suspension as the Fronty and the X, so you have tons of options there.
Actually, an Armada swap is definitely possible. How do I know ...?
The V8 Pathy has the same underpinnings as the Armada. I have one.
Both have the same diffs. You can do the Titan/Armada UCA/LCA and axle swap up front, and do a rear Armada swap in the rear.
The V8 Pathy diffs can bolt on directly to the V6 Pathys.
I am really looking hard into doing this. At least, I can do the front Titan swap since I already have the same front diff (M205) as the Titan/Armada. Near the end of this year, 4x4parts will release a locker for the M205. Later, I can do the Armada swap for the rear since I already have the same rear as the Armada (R230).
The Pathy shares the exact suspension as the Fronty and the X, so you have tons of options there.
Hold up for a sec! Sorry man, if you dont get a reply, maybe most of us just dont know. One thing I haved learned with this forum is that we gladly share what we do know... Be it from our own experiences, or what we find from research.serrated wrote:is that a no? WTF? Good thing you guys are helpfull.
This is a young message board, with only a bit over 500 members. Only a portion of those are currently active. There isnt nearly as much info, or activity, as say... http://www.clubfrontier.org/ that has over 12,000 members, BUT we are growing. Heck, there was only about 200 members when I joined, only a year ago.
Honestly, in two years of owning my Pfinder, I have never heard of doing a swap like that. What is the benefit? Is it a "4X4" thing like what ragpaoa is talking about?
Oh yeah, welcome to the board serrated!
[counts to ten...]serrated wrote:is that a no? WTF? Good thing you guys are helpfull.
On behalf of the forum, of which I am only a member, I apologize for disappointing you by not immediately responding to your question within the 2 hours and 25 minutes between your first and follow-up posts, in the middle of the workday. While TheNissanPath.com is the largest and most active community of 2005+ Pathfinder owners I've discovered on the Internet, as a Frontier owner, I guess you expected better response than we can provide.
As for your specific question, I've not heard of anyone attempting or even discussing this mod. That might be because nobody's thought of the idea, or it could be because they researched the idea and discovered it can't work out. On the face of things, it seems unlikely to work, as the rear track for the Pathfinder is 61.8" versus the Armada's 67.5", I'm not sure how you make up the approximately 3" difference on either side.
But before taking this as your final answer, you might want to give it some more time so others can have a chance to review your post.
Well there you have some more input. I guess I should have spent less time editing. 
Ragpaoa, are you sure about the diffs? It seems when ARB lockers were discussed last year, it was established that US Pathfinders have the R200 diff, vs the R230 used in the Armada and non-US Pathy's. Does the V8 Pathfinder use the R230? (I've got a V6).
I also doubt that the Pathy's rear suspension is anything like the Xterra or Frontier, as the Pathfinder has independent rear suspension with coil springs, while the X/Fronty have a solid rear axle and leaf springs. It's too dark and cold for me to crawl under my truck right now, but I'm reasonably confident that swapping the IRS Pathfinder rear with the solid-axle rear from an X isn't a plug-n-play operation. (But I'd love to know if its "reasonably possible!").
I only have the shop manual for the R51 V6. If you look at parts diagrams such as those on CourtesyParts.com, it's hard to figure out what is the same and what is different, as the part numbers given aren't really actual part numbers, but reference numbers that will point to the actual part numbers when cross-referenced by vehicle VIN. So, even though the part numbers for the Armada rear UCA/LCA appear the same, they might in reality be substantially different.
The thing I come back to is the difference in rear wheel track between the Pathfinder and the Armada, almost 6 inches wider on the Armada. Somewhere there must be some difference in the Armada rear suspension and drive train to make up that difference. If the exact same UCA/LCA are used, then the crossmember spacing must be different? I don't know. Then again, if the same UCA/LCA are used in both, then I guess there's no reason to want to swap them.
Ragpaoa, are you sure about the diffs? It seems when ARB lockers were discussed last year, it was established that US Pathfinders have the R200 diff, vs the R230 used in the Armada and non-US Pathy's. Does the V8 Pathfinder use the R230? (I've got a V6).
I also doubt that the Pathy's rear suspension is anything like the Xterra or Frontier, as the Pathfinder has independent rear suspension with coil springs, while the X/Fronty have a solid rear axle and leaf springs. It's too dark and cold for me to crawl under my truck right now, but I'm reasonably confident that swapping the IRS Pathfinder rear with the solid-axle rear from an X isn't a plug-n-play operation. (But I'd love to know if its "reasonably possible!").
I only have the shop manual for the R51 V6. If you look at parts diagrams such as those on CourtesyParts.com, it's hard to figure out what is the same and what is different, as the part numbers given aren't really actual part numbers, but reference numbers that will point to the actual part numbers when cross-referenced by vehicle VIN. So, even though the part numbers for the Armada rear UCA/LCA appear the same, they might in reality be substantially different.
The thing I come back to is the difference in rear wheel track between the Pathfinder and the Armada, almost 6 inches wider on the Armada. Somewhere there must be some difference in the Armada rear suspension and drive train to make up that difference. If the exact same UCA/LCA are used, then the crossmember spacing must be different? I don't know. Then again, if the same UCA/LCA are used in both, then I guess there's no reason to want to swap them.
Hey Guys,
Sorry, wasn't too clear. I was trying to frantically respond quickly to our new member's response since he was getting impatient
Okay, here's the scoop.
First, the V8 Pathy differentials are exactly the same as the Armada's Diffs: M205 front and R230 rear 2.937 ratio. The V6 has an R180 front and R200 rear diff, 2.937, 3.133 and 3.357 ratios.
For the rest of the world the Pathy's get an R180 front and R230 Rear in 3.538, 3.692 ratios.
Second, ARB has released a locker for the R230 rear but for ratios 3.538 and up (that's why we in the US are out of luck). I know, I went to ARB in WA to get fitted, they tried, but were off by 4-5mm too thick. Everything else fit perfectly. Possible modified locker in the future to fit.
Now, for the swap, the Frontys and X folks are fitting the M205 diffs from a Titan/Armada up front because the R180 were considered weak and kept breaking. They had 2 options while going this route: keep the same length by buying the V8 Pathy axle shafts and CVs, or go the more elaborate route and replace the UCA/LCA and axles from the Titans, thus providing greater lift and articulation (9-11" travel). You also get a 3" wider track on each side. But it works and has been done successfully with great results.
Following so far? ....
The Armada has the IRS in the rear, the same as the Pathy. For the V8 folks, since the diffs are the same, the only major difference is the length of the UCA/LCA, springs and axles. You can swap out these components from an Armada just as you would the fronts. For the V6 folks, pretty much the same thing, but you do have to get the R230 diff as well from the V8 pathy of Armada.
I haven't seen the rear swap done yet, but looking at both suspensions (my business partner's Armada), I believe it can be done with very little mods.
Advantages? Yes: 1) Stronger Diffs 2)3-4" Height Increase 3)More articulation 4)ARB Locker soon 5)Lot cheaper than an SAS (solid axle swap) 6)Wider track: 3" per side
Hope this helps.
Sorry, wasn't too clear. I was trying to frantically respond quickly to our new member's response since he was getting impatient
Okay, here's the scoop.
First, the V8 Pathy differentials are exactly the same as the Armada's Diffs: M205 front and R230 rear 2.937 ratio. The V6 has an R180 front and R200 rear diff, 2.937, 3.133 and 3.357 ratios.
For the rest of the world the Pathy's get an R180 front and R230 Rear in 3.538, 3.692 ratios.
Second, ARB has released a locker for the R230 rear but for ratios 3.538 and up (that's why we in the US are out of luck). I know, I went to ARB in WA to get fitted, they tried, but were off by 4-5mm too thick. Everything else fit perfectly. Possible modified locker in the future to fit.
Now, for the swap, the Frontys and X folks are fitting the M205 diffs from a Titan/Armada up front because the R180 were considered weak and kept breaking. They had 2 options while going this route: keep the same length by buying the V8 Pathy axle shafts and CVs, or go the more elaborate route and replace the UCA/LCA and axles from the Titans, thus providing greater lift and articulation (9-11" travel). You also get a 3" wider track on each side. But it works and has been done successfully with great results.
Following so far? ....
The Armada has the IRS in the rear, the same as the Pathy. For the V8 folks, since the diffs are the same, the only major difference is the length of the UCA/LCA, springs and axles. You can swap out these components from an Armada just as you would the fronts. For the V6 folks, pretty much the same thing, but you do have to get the R230 diff as well from the V8 pathy of Armada.
I haven't seen the rear swap done yet, but looking at both suspensions (my business partner's Armada), I believe it can be done with very little mods.
Advantages? Yes: 1) Stronger Diffs 2)3-4" Height Increase 3)More articulation 4)ARB Locker soon 5)Lot cheaper than an SAS (solid axle swap) 6)Wider track: 3" per side
Hope this helps.
Not sure if we have anyone nutty enough to do a major swapout like that. Ragpaoa, if you end up swapping out the control arms, you'd probably start a trend. I can't imagine what the PF would look like, aside from that chopjob from Calmini. I'd like to see exactly what parts are involved & the costs. Not something I'd do right now, but maybe a few years down the road (depending on the economy, oil, etc.).
Well, I have been thinking about it for a while, but not sure if I would do it. My main objective is to get more travel and articulation, along with more height with good ride comfort.
I think the better approach is to get the RadFlo 2.5 Front shocks, PRG UCA and a 1.5" spacer. That would provide a decent lift and increased travel up front. I would then keep my OME rear springs which already have a decent lift, but source out a bit longer rear shock to increase travel. I made some measurements to see how much more travel we can get at the rear without compromising the axle and CV angles.
I believe we can go another 10-15mm longer rear shock, which can equate to another 1" overall travel (due to leverage).
I think the better approach is to get the RadFlo 2.5 Front shocks, PRG UCA and a 1.5" spacer. That would provide a decent lift and increased travel up front. I would then keep my OME rear springs which already have a decent lift, but source out a bit longer rear shock to increase travel. I made some measurements to see how much more travel we can get at the rear without compromising the axle and CV angles.
I believe we can go another 10-15mm longer rear shock, which can equate to another 1" overall travel (due to leverage).
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MEMOCAMPOS
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:04 pm
- Location: Orange County, CA.
ome rear springs
Hey ragpaoa how much lift did ur ome rear springs provide? and did u go w/ HD or MED?
Hey MARKSPATH,
After MEMOCAMPOS post on the new ICON rear shocks, I would forego the Armada UCA/LCA swap and just do the RadFlo front/ICON rear upgrades. You get the increased height and extra articulation with a better ride overall, and not have to deal with the whole axle/UCA/LCA thing and save cost.
However, doing the Armada rear DIFF swap may not be a bad idea if you want the beefier R230 and possible locker. Later, you can do the Armada front DIFF swap to get the beefier M205 and possible locker.
After MEMOCAMPOS post on the new ICON rear shocks, I would forego the Armada UCA/LCA swap and just do the RadFlo front/ICON rear upgrades. You get the increased height and extra articulation with a better ride overall, and not have to deal with the whole axle/UCA/LCA thing and save cost.
However, doing the Armada rear DIFF swap may not be a bad idea if you want the beefier R230 and possible locker. Later, you can do the Armada front DIFF swap to get the beefier M205 and possible locker.
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