So, yesterday morning the Pathy would not start. She cranked fine but would not start. She ran fine on Sunday when I made a 400 mile round-trip to visit family in Delaware. I'm don't know how to test for spark and fuel so I didn't mess with that.
Based the discussions here and elsewhere, I figured it was the IPDM. I had the Pathy towed to the local Nissan dealer ($110 ouch!). They diagnosed the problem to be a bad fuel pump and the initial estimate was around $850 -- bigger ouch.
My Pathy has 84,000 miles. I'm not surprised that the pump failed especially since it's been out of the tank for 2 fuel level sending unit replacements. That said, I wanted to see whether others are having fuel pump failures.
Thankfully, my Pathy is subject to the fuel level sending unit recall and I had not taken it in yet. When the second sending unit failed, I ordered the parts and ended up having it installed at a friend's shop. The third unit was working fine so I planned to until/if it failed to go for the recall.
The dealer confirmed my Pathy was subject to the recall. After checking with the service manager, the labor to replace the fuel pump was eliminated which reduced my total cost to $373.78 -- $355.98 for the complete pump and $17.80 for tax. The pump price (Nissan P/N 17040-ZZ00A) is basically Nissan list price. I wasn't charged for diagnostic so I'm OK with paying retail even though I could order the pump of the Internet for 1/3 less.
She wouldn't start
Moderator: volvite
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Mariofuels
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:12 am
The fuel pump and fuel level sending units are separate components of the complete fuel module. Replacing the level sending unit does not mean the fuel pump gets replaced too.
Having fuel pump problems on a vehicle around 100K miles is not uncommon. I just replaced a fuel pump in a Ford E-350 with 108K. Your vehicle did have a premature failure, but not uncommon. Sometimes you can hit the bottom of the fuel tank with a hammer or heavy object where the fuel pump sits and this will fix the issue for a period of time. I’ve done it with some vehicles where they’ve ran for another 10K miles, and some only 400 miles. Most of the time, the brushes in the fuel pump wear and drop contact.
If you had the 17040-ZZ00A install, this is the complete fuel module, and has the recall fuel level sending unit on it.
$300 for the fuel sending unit is high. If covered under warranty the dealership can only charge about $170 back to Nissan for the part. But everyone has to get a piece of the pie, so for vehicles not covered under warranty $300 is normal.
What issues are you have with the sending unit?
Having fuel pump problems on a vehicle around 100K miles is not uncommon. I just replaced a fuel pump in a Ford E-350 with 108K. Your vehicle did have a premature failure, but not uncommon. Sometimes you can hit the bottom of the fuel tank with a hammer or heavy object where the fuel pump sits and this will fix the issue for a period of time. I’ve done it with some vehicles where they’ve ran for another 10K miles, and some only 400 miles. Most of the time, the brushes in the fuel pump wear and drop contact.
If you had the 17040-ZZ00A install, this is the complete fuel module, and has the recall fuel level sending unit on it.
$300 for the fuel sending unit is high. If covered under warranty the dealership can only charge about $170 back to Nissan for the part. But everyone has to get a piece of the pie, so for vehicles not covered under warranty $300 is normal.
What issues are you have with the sending unit?
Long story: http://www.thenissanpath.com/viewtopic. ... light=#465
Short story:
The original/first sending until failed at roughly 3500 miles -- before the first oil change. The second failed at 45,000 miles. As the Pathy was out of warranty, I purchased the sending unit and O ring with plans to install it myself but never got around to it. A good friend of mine is the service manager at a Dodge dealer and he cut me a good deal to install the third sending unit. The third sending unit was working fine when replaced by the dealer today. But replacing it under the recall cut my fuel pump repair cost in half.
Short story:
The original/first sending until failed at roughly 3500 miles -- before the first oil change. The second failed at 45,000 miles. As the Pathy was out of warranty, I purchased the sending unit and O ring with plans to install it myself but never got around to it. A good friend of mine is the service manager at a Dodge dealer and he cut me a good deal to install the third sending unit. The third sending unit was working fine when replaced by the dealer today. But replacing it under the recall cut my fuel pump repair cost in half.
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Mariofuels
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:12 am
Good you hear the dealership was able to cut the cost.
Sounds like your original issue at 4K…ran out of gas with the fuel needle reading ¼ gauge, this is why the recall was issued.
The second repair at 45K, this is the wide spread issue and usually the check engine comes on and P0463 is stored in the ECM. For your sake, with the fuel gauge not reading full after filling it up, except after a 20 mile drive. This is mostly due to Nissan’s fuel gauge logic, which a Nissan Japanese Engineer probably doesn’t even fully understand caused this problem. The logic uses some sort of averaging algorithm based on vehicle speed and it should reset its averaging after you fill the vehicle up. But in your case it didn’t, which is why it took so long to register full. The fuel gauge logic has a very simple general idea, but when looking in-depth of how the vehicle systems communicate with each other, it is very complex.
If you happen to get a Check Engine Light on, it will turn off after about 10 on / off of the vehicle, if the issue does not persist any more. However, just because your check engine light is off, your ECM will still store the coded until it is cleared or it is reset by removing the battery.
Your “No Start” fuel pump repair is unrelated to either of issues.
Hopefully, you’ll have no more fuel related issues now.
Sounds like your original issue at 4K…ran out of gas with the fuel needle reading ¼ gauge, this is why the recall was issued.
The second repair at 45K, this is the wide spread issue and usually the check engine comes on and P0463 is stored in the ECM. For your sake, with the fuel gauge not reading full after filling it up, except after a 20 mile drive. This is mostly due to Nissan’s fuel gauge logic, which a Nissan Japanese Engineer probably doesn’t even fully understand caused this problem. The logic uses some sort of averaging algorithm based on vehicle speed and it should reset its averaging after you fill the vehicle up. But in your case it didn’t, which is why it took so long to register full. The fuel gauge logic has a very simple general idea, but when looking in-depth of how the vehicle systems communicate with each other, it is very complex.
If you happen to get a Check Engine Light on, it will turn off after about 10 on / off of the vehicle, if the issue does not persist any more. However, just because your check engine light is off, your ECM will still store the coded until it is cleared or it is reset by removing the battery.
Your “No Start” fuel pump repair is unrelated to either of issues.
Hopefully, you’ll have no more fuel related issues now.
OK, now I'm getting a little concerned that I was "double dipped."
The fuel level sending unit recall covers parts and labor to replace the sending unit.
My invoice lists the "25060-ZZ00A GAUGE ASSY" (sending unit) and 17341-EA000 (packing/O-ring) as no-charge under the recall. It then lists the "17040-ZZ00A PUMP COMPL" at $355.98. Doesn't the "17040-ZZ00A PUMP COMPL" include the 25060-ZZ00A? Googling "17040-ZZ00A" returns this ebay auction/sale which shows the fuel level sending unit is included.
Shouldn't they have used the "17041-ZP00A PUMP ASSY-FUEL, W/MODULE FLTR"???
The fuel level sending unit recall covers parts and labor to replace the sending unit.
My invoice lists the "25060-ZZ00A GAUGE ASSY" (sending unit) and 17341-EA000 (packing/O-ring) as no-charge under the recall. It then lists the "17040-ZZ00A PUMP COMPL" at $355.98. Doesn't the "17040-ZZ00A PUMP COMPL" include the 25060-ZZ00A? Googling "17040-ZZ00A" returns this ebay auction/sale which shows the fuel level sending unit is included.
Shouldn't they have used the "17041-ZP00A PUMP ASSY-FUEL, W/MODULE FLTR"???
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Mariofuels
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:12 am
You are correct. I didn’t want to say anything because you did get your fuel pump repair with no labor cost.
The recall will cover the 25060-ZZ00A and 17342-EA000 and labor. The labor is the same whether replacing the fuel pump or just the level sending unit. So labor was charged under the recall.
The 17040-ZZ00A contains 25060-ZZ00A as part of the complete fuel module.
The dealership probably had the 17040-ZZ00A in stock, and not the 17041. It gets your vehicle in and out of the shop quick.
So…the dealership will charge Nissan for the recall repair, then you for the complete pump. They got an extra $60 - $90 out of the deal. If you have good relations with your dealership, I would go back and ask for $100 or more back. They are screwing both you and Nissan.
I still can’t believe the cost of the service parts at dealerships today. Most dealerships are still out to screw you, but remember it’s the dealership not Nissan.
If you haven’t noticed, the dealerships are making a killing off their parts and service department during these hard times. This is because vehicle sales have dropped dramatically two years ago, but are now starting to pick up. They have to make their money some how? and when vehicle sales drop, where did they turn? Parts and Service!!!
The recall will cover the 25060-ZZ00A and 17342-EA000 and labor. The labor is the same whether replacing the fuel pump or just the level sending unit. So labor was charged under the recall.
The 17040-ZZ00A contains 25060-ZZ00A as part of the complete fuel module.
The dealership probably had the 17040-ZZ00A in stock, and not the 17041. It gets your vehicle in and out of the shop quick.
So…the dealership will charge Nissan for the recall repair, then you for the complete pump. They got an extra $60 - $90 out of the deal. If you have good relations with your dealership, I would go back and ask for $100 or more back. They are screwing both you and Nissan.
I still can’t believe the cost of the service parts at dealerships today. Most dealerships are still out to screw you, but remember it’s the dealership not Nissan.
If you haven’t noticed, the dealerships are making a killing off their parts and service department during these hard times. This is because vehicle sales have dropped dramatically two years ago, but are now starting to pick up. They have to make their money some how? and when vehicle sales drop, where did they turn? Parts and Service!!!
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