Changing to P265/70R16 REV02s

[disallow]

Hey all,

As I previously posted, I replaced my P265/70R16 Cooper Discoverer ATRs with LT265/75R16 Bridgestone Dueler AT REV02s last July. I really like the REV02s, they have to be about the quietest tire I've ever driven on. They also gave me a 1" lift for the truck, and they've worn very respectably, only lost just over 1/32" since I got them 15000km ago.

However, I immediately noticed that there was more 'pedal effort' required to get the truck rolling, and I also noticed a 20%ish drop in Fuel Economy. I also tow a (rather large) travel trailer with the path, and I noticed it didn't tow as well with the new tires. Gear hunting mostly, I figure the increased effort to turn the wheels wasn't doing my path any favors.

What I am wondering is do any of you think that going to the P version on the REV02s in the P265/70R16 size will help me get over the fuel economy, pedal effort, and trailer towing issues? Seems alot to expect from a 1" change in diameter, and a less deep tread (the P rated REV02s have 12/32" from the factory vs 16/32" for the LTs). I would like to keep the characteristics of the tire, but also would expect the ride to loosen up some.

Also, would moving to the other factory tire size of P245/75/R16 be something to consider as well? They have almost the same diameter as the 265/70, but being 20mm narrower should provide lower rolling resistance, right?

Of note is that Bridgestone offers a treadwear warranty on the P-rated tires, but not the LTs.

Thoughts? Also, if REV02s aren't going to help me with the fuel economy issue, what tire is recommended considering that I tow big?

t

[Npath]

I've gone the same route as you have, pretty much.

The new tires you put on are more than likely a winter tire, which means more weight and more tread contact with the ground. With all that, the engine needs to work harder to turn the heavier tires, so yeah, you burn more fuel.

I have the Goodyear Wrangler Territory's LT265/75/16's I bought from Canadian Tire. So far, good treadwear, as I can still see rigid marks on the treads when it was made.

So, going back to the "P" tires, will help your mileage and less stress on the engine.

It's more than likely I'll be getting a set or aftermarket rims with "P" tires for my Pathfinder. Gas is gonna get more expensive and getting a set of all seasons ready to be mounted would probably be cheaper in the long run.

City driving, getting 378km on a full tank with these winter tires. All seasons, I'd get around 400km at this time of year.

[disallow]

Geez with mileage like that you might as well get a full size! I can still squeeze 450-500km out of most tanks. Before the REV02s I could do 600-650km. Is that 384km over the full 80L, or how many liters?

Have you had it looked at? Maybe cats or O2 sensors or your MAF sensor?

If mine doesn't pick up after wasting another 200-300 in tires, that's the direction I will be going.

Also maybe spark plugs, I've done 4 put of 6 of mine already. Waiting for a break in the cold weather before I crack the last 2.

[Npath]

Geez with mileage like that you might as well get a full size! I can still squeeze 450-500km out of most tanks. Before the REV02s I could do 600-650km. Is that 384km over the full 80L, or how many liters?

Have you had it looked at? Maybe cats or O2 sensors or your MAF sensor?

If mine doesn't pick up after wasting another 200-300 in tires, that's the direction I will be going.

Also maybe spark plugs, I've done 4 put of 6 of mine already. Waiting for a break in the cold weather before I crack the last 2.

No, haven't had it looked at. It gradually got worse as it got colder and it's stopped at 19L/100km.

I think its the winter gas and heavy tires and yeah, that is on a full tank of fuel 80L, but I fill up when the amber light comes on to refuel.

It just went over 60,000km so, I don't know, I don't think it's MAF or o2 sensor. But I will ask a mechanic to take a look with the scanner.

Vancouver does have a lot of hills and stop and go driving.

[skinny2]

The P will get better fuel economy for sure. I wouldn't want to go to a more narrow tire (particularly when towing) and I would question a P given the heavy loads you're towing. I prefer the P tires on my non-heavy duty vehicles but I don't do more than light work with them anyway. Do they not make an LT Revo in the stock 16"? That seems like the best choice in my book for you.

[disallow]

The P will get better fuel economy for sure. I wouldn't want to go to a more narrow tire (particularly when towing) and I would question a P given the heavy loads you're towing. I prefer the P tires on my non-heavy duty vehicles but I don't do more than light work with them anyway. Do they not make an LT Revo in the stock 16"? That seems like the best choice in my book for you.

The LTs they make are all E-Rated, so no they don't.

The P265/70R16 is rated for a max load of 2403lbs. The LT265/75R16 is rated for a max load of 3415lbs. The Pathy GVW is 6000lbs, and a curb weight of 4586lbs. 2403 x 4 = 9612lbs capacity, which leaves plenty of margin, even if the tires aren't inflated to the max pressure.

My trailer is way below the 600lb max tongue weight specified by Nissan, its 400lbs. So as long as I stay inside the requirements, I think the P tires will be fine. I did tow with the Coopers before I got the REV02s, like I said, the towing experience was better with those tires than with the Bridgestones...

Regarding the tire width, I like the idea of wider tires too, but from a pure physics perspective, wouldn't narrower be better for towing, icey driving, etc etc?

[skinny2]

Snow/ice narrower is better. Stability...wider. I guess if you're towing in the winter you might make a judgetment call...but for normal towing I'd take stability of the vehicle over fuel economy. I see an awful lot of SUV accidents while towing trailers. Take a trip through WV in the summer and it's nearly impossible not to see what happens when conditions aren't ideal.

[NVSteve]

Regarding the tire width, I like the idea of wider tires too, but from a pure physics perspective, wouldn't narrower be better for towing, icey driving, etc etc?

Narrower for snow & wider for ice. Wider tires will "float" more over snow & not dig down as much as a narrower one. On ice, the more area you have in contact with ice, the better the handling. Lots of caveats to both of these though, one of which is the actual tire (tread pattern) in question & 2, everyone's going to have a different opinion about this.

The new tires you put on are more than likely a winter tire, which means more weight and more tread contact with the ground. With all that, the engine needs to work harder to turn the heavier tires, so yeah, you burn more fuel.

Couple of problems here. Going with a taller tire will absolutely affect the gearing response & would probably be fairly evident when towing. Any time you increase the height, you take a hit in gearing (or not-depends on how well the OEM gearing was to begin with on a vehicle). I've gone from P rated to LT rated on quite a few different vehicles. The small amount of added weight was never enough to make any visible changes to my mpg. However, keep in mind that if you jump from one size to a taller size, your speedo will be off. It is off to begin with if you run anything other than a 265/75/16. Basically, it will look like your mileage is suffering if you don't account for the taller tires in your mpg equations.

However, I immediately noticed that there was more 'pedal effort' required to get the truck rolling, and I also noticed a 20%ish drop in Fuel Economy.

I haven't had a smaller size tire on the Pathfinder, although I did have the original set of P rated OEM junk, followed by Revos in LT & currently Wranglers in LT. I didn't notice any change going from the OEM P tires to the heavier LT Revos. My mpg was a bit better, but that's most likely because I had them inflated more than the P rated tires. You should not notice a 20% drop in fuel economy (using the adjusted mpg calculation). That is really severe & would make me start questioning other things outside of tires. I don't even drop that much in the winter, and I have to idle mine a huge amount (defrosting while scraping the ice & snow off; idling in thick snow on the freeway waiting to move another inch toward home, etc.).

[disallow]

I hear you NVSteve, and have looked into other things that could contribute to lower mileage. Its just too coincidental that the tire change coincides with the fuel economy change. Like I said, it was something that you could notice right away, the truck didn't roll by itself anymore, you had to push the gas. When I had the Coopers on, it wasn't like that.

I didn't change anything else at that time, but have since done my brakes (Front pads and rotors, rear pads) and have checked if anything is dragging, they are not.

Going through the process of changing plugs. Will see if I can get a donor MAF to try out. The only other thing is CATs and O2 sensors. I won't go down this (expensive) road until I get a code that says theres a problem, or nothing else works.

The speedo is 100% correct now (according to my BB GPS) and did track slower (about 3%) when I had 70 series tires on it. The 3% does not account for my loss in fuel economy.

I guess my expectations for fuel economy are a little high, mostly due to what I used to get. I bought the truck at 95k kms, and immediately took it on a 1000mi road trip. It performed admirably, getting close to 22-25 USMPG. Now its at 15 USMPG. Here we are, 60000km later, and the truck runs great, has awesome power, tows my huge camper better than I expect, so none of the warning signals are really there that point to a mechanical failure. Therefore I am left with "what has changed since I got those good numbers?" and the Tires are #1 on the list.

However, compared to the FE #s that Npath is getting, I guess I shouldn't be complaining...

t

[Npath]

Lots of good points from the both of you.

I'm a member on other pathfinder forums and popped a question on one of them regarding mileage.

2 have replied they are getting the same lousy mileage at this time, so I don't think there is a mechanical or electronic problem.

[richardekirby]

One difference between the P series and LT is the weight. The P series tire weighs 40 lbs and the LT weighs 48 lbs. Even worse, it's all unsprung weight. Imagine the shock I experienced when I went from a General Grabber P265/65-17 which weighed about 38 lbs to a Revo 2 LT285/75-16 that weighed a hefty 54 lbs each. The added weight greatly reduces gas mileage.

I see where the narrower tire would benefit gas mileage. I guess its a matter of personal preference and looks vs mileage. Although I have seen some rigs that had the taller, narrower tires and looked good. Wheel spacers were used to maintain overall width and keep it from looking like a postal jeep.

I notice you tow heavy loads frequently. Maybe you can pick up another set of rims and put P series on them and just use your LTs for towing. That's similar to what I'm doing. I would love run the Revo tires full time, but I can't afford the mileage decrease with as much highway driving as my wife does. Let us know what you decide to do.

[richardekirby]

I hear you NVSteve, and have looked into other things that could contribute to lower mileage. Its just too coincidental that the tire change coincides with the fuel economy change. Like I said, it was something that you could notice right away, the truck didn't roll by itself anymore, you had to push the gas. When I had the Coopers on, it wasn't like that.

I didn't change anything else at that time, but have since done my brakes (Front pads and rotors, rear pads) and have checked if anything is dragging, they are not.

Going through the process of changing plugs. Will see if I can get a donor MAF to try out. The only other thing is CATs and O2 sensors. I won't go down this (expensive) road until I get a code that says theres a problem, or nothing else works.

The speedo is 100% correct now (according to my BB GPS) and did track slower (about 3%) when I had 70 series tires on it. The 3% does not account for my loss in fuel economy.

I guess my expectations for fuel economy are a little high, mostly due to what I used to get. I bought the truck at 95k kms, and immediately took it on a 1000mi road trip. It performed admirably, getting close to 22-25 USMPG. Now its at 15 USMPG. Here we are, 60000km later, and the truck runs great, has awesome power, tows my huge camper better than I expect, so none of the warning signals are really there that point to a mechanical failure. Therefore I am left with "what has changed since I got those good numbers?" and the Tires are #1 on the list.

However, compared to the FE #s that Npath is getting, I guess I shouldn't be complaining...

t

I'm experiencing the same thing. I used to get 20-23mpg on the highway with P265/65-17 Grabbers. After I put the LT285/75-16 Revo tires on, I had a big drop in mileage, down to about 13-15mpg on the highway, but I expected that somewhat. When we got back from our trip to Colorado in June, I replaced the Grabbers that were on the stock rims with some P265/70-17 Toyo Open Country tires and removed the Revos. Mileage improved a little, but not very much. I was in the 15-17mpg range on the highway. Like you, I was running thru my head what the hell happened.

I did a bunch of stuff to the truck before our trip. I replaced ALL the fluids, changed the brake pads, removed the plastic piece underneath the front end, took it to the dealer to have the fuel sender replaced, ect. I can't see where any of that would account for my mileage drop. I've checked to see if my brakes were dragging and all that. Nothing has turned up.

I have two theories: 1) The plastic piece underneath the front plays an important part of the aerodynamics and removing it screwed that all up. I'll have to put it back on and see what happens. 2) The dealer updated the computer while I had it in the shop and the new "tune" is not as efficient.

Did you have yours in the shop by any chance?

[disallow]

I'm experiencing the same thing. I used to get 20-23mpg on the highway with P265/65-17 Grabbers. After I put the LT285/75-16 Revo tires on, I had a big drop in mileage, down to about 13-15mpg on the highway, but I expected that somewhat. When we got back from our trip to Colorado in June, I replaced the Grabbers that were on the stock rims with some P265/70-17 Toyo Open Country tires and removed the Revos. Mileage improved a little, but not very much. I was in the 15-17mpg range on the highway. Like you, I was running thru my head what the hell happened.

I did a bunch of stuff to the truck before our trip. I replaced ALL the fluids, changed the brake pads, removed the plastic piece underneath the front end, took it to the dealer to have the fuel sender replaced, ect. I can't see where any of that would account for my mileage drop. I've checked to see if my brakes were dragging and all that. Nothing has turned up.

I have two theories: 1) The plastic piece underneath the front plays an important part of the aerodynamics and removing it screwed that all up. I'll have to put it back on and see what happens. 2) The dealer updated the computer while I had it in the shop and the new "tune" is not as efficient.

Did you have yours in the shop by any chance?

I have not taken my truck to the shop since I bought it. Everything has been done here on the homestead.

However, upon further ponderance, I realized another change that has occured. I have a Superchips Cortex that I've been playing with for almost 2 years now. 2 summers ago, I was left stranded at my campground because I tried to do a reflash when my battery was too run down. This caused an error in the Cortex that essentially wiped my ECU. I had to send it back to them to get it recovered. Doesn't quite line up with my timeline though, as I only noticed the drop since this summer...

hmmmm.

[disallow]

Well the P265/75R16s are on order. $220 a piece installed.

I managed to sell my old tires for $650, a guy gave me a deposit already.

So this little experiment will cost me about $350. Was hoping to keep that number lower (around $200), but what can ya do. The tires go to the new owner with no warranty (not transferrable), and they have worn about 15% of the useable tread in the 15000km I've driven on them. (down 2/32 with 16/32 being the factory depth, 3/32 being the minimum)

Will be getting an alignment at the same time.

t

[disallow]

Well I made the plunge today and switched tires like I mentioned earlier in this thread. And even though there was a huge snowstorm here today, which may affect my initial experience and opinions, here they are anyways:

1. Immediately noticed a difference in the amount of 'pedal effort' required to get moving. Perhaps my theory (earlier in this post) is correct?

2. Did not feel nearly as sure-footed - This could have been due to the snow and ice, quite extreme today. The LT tires made me feel almost invincible, these tires did not give me that feeling. They are lighter, and felt that way. Could be in my head too. We'll see what I think once the snow clears.

3. Fuel economy - only drove about 50km on them so far, and all of that was in 4x4. They fuel gauge didn't seem to move at all. Thats not normal, usually you can watch the damn thing move down.

I have a before pic, will take an after pic tomorrow and post it. Will include pics of the tread and a side by side compare of the tire profile.

Also, I mentioned I would get an alignment, but as I mentioned in another post, they couldn't do it due to the adjustment bolts being seized. DOH!

Thoughts?
t