Howdy amigos,
New to the forum here. I've had my '91 Pathfinder SE for about 2 weeks and after going through the service records, I see that she is about 30K overdue for her timing belt service (read: ticking time bomb!).
I'm about to order the parts and was wondering if anyone had any input about parts preference, OEM vs. aftermarket.
I see Courtesy Nissan has a kit for $274 (before shipping, and they list the WG30E as a '94-'95 for some reason, as I don't believe I have the WG30i engine):
http://www.courtesyparts.com/bundle-tim ... 68787.html
This is the kit I was thinking of going with on eBay (seems pretty complete except for no t-stat) for $154 shipped:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380771602513?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT
And then there is this Gates kit and I would put the rest of the parts together on my own (it only comes with the pump/gasket, T-belt, tensioner and w/p studs) for $80 shipped:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/87-93-Nissan-Pa ... 34&vxp=mtr
I'm going to do the radiator hoses and spark plugs at the same time. Thanks in advance for any input.
1991 Pathfinder SE timing belt project, OEM Nissan or eBay?
Moderator: volvite
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Johnny Haywire
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:02 pm
- Location: Chicago
I've used a number of Gates timing component kits w/ water pump for VG30 engines which I've purchased through Rockauto.com and they've been of good quality, typically using Aisin water pumps and Koyo tensioner pulleys, which are OEM suppliers to Nissan.
Looking at the Ebay kit, it also seems to be made up of OEM part suppliers to Nissan, including Bando, Koyo, Aisin, NTN and Mitsuboshi. I think I would go that route. Only thing I would add is a genuine Nissan thermostat.
Looking at the Ebay kit, it also seems to be made up of OEM part suppliers to Nissan, including Bando, Koyo, Aisin, NTN and Mitsuboshi. I think I would go that route. Only thing I would add is a genuine Nissan thermostat.
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Johnny Haywire
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:02 pm
- Location: Chicago
Thanks for the input and the knowledge, SMJ, I do appreciate it. I think that is the route I'm going to go and then order a few other parts (t-stat included) from a Nissan supplier. I used Nissan Parts Zone for my battery hold down bits and door lock clips/plates and they came through pretty well.
I'll keep you guys posted, hoping to knock it out this coming weekend.
I'll keep you guys posted, hoping to knock it out this coming weekend.
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Johnny Haywire
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:02 pm
- Location: Chicago
Thanks for the tips, SMJ. I ended up going with the eBay kit and and then OEM Nissan for the rest (bypass and upper and lower rad hoses, t-stat and tensioner stud (just in case)).
All parts are supposed to be here by Friday and the project begins Saturday morning.
I'll definitely take some pictures and put up a post about that.
All parts are supposed to be here by Friday and the project begins Saturday morning.
I'll definitely take some pictures and put up a post about that.
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Johnny Haywire
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:02 pm
- Location: Chicago
Got the eBay parts kit today. Pretty pleased with what came. Shipped super quick (took 2.5 days) and the parts included are:
Continental Contitech accessory belts (German made?)
Mileage Maker timing belt (US made)
NPW (Nissan Pump MFG Co., Japan)
Flennor Automotive Germany tensioner (says made in Japan)
Genuine Nissan tensioner spring (Japan)
Unbranded cam and crank seals.
The rest of the parts from Nissan should be here today or tomorrow and the replacement starts tomorrow morning.
Continental Contitech accessory belts (German made?)
Mileage Maker timing belt (US made)
NPW (Nissan Pump MFG Co., Japan)
Flennor Automotive Germany tensioner (says made in Japan)
Genuine Nissan tensioner spring (Japan)
Unbranded cam and crank seals.
The rest of the parts from Nissan should be here today or tomorrow and the replacement starts tomorrow morning.
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Johnny Haywire
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:02 pm
- Location: Chicago
Finished...I hope
Got her done. Took twice the time and beer anticipated, but she runs again!
I went with a mix of OEM Nissan parts and the eBay kit. I did not end up changing that elbow hose behind the rear timing cover for the cams (kind of wish I did, but the cam seals seemed okay and so I did not pull them or the rear cover, which allows access to said hose) and also did not change the stud for the t-belt tensioner (seemed fine). All the ordered parts seemed to work well and fit well, except the WP gasket, see below.
Some notable pains in the arse were:
Upon removal, the spark plug wires left most of the metal contacts on the end of the plugs, ripping them off the wire itself, despite visible evidence of dielectric grease being used. Probably lost 30-40 minutes rebuilding them. 4 of 6 came out like that. Throw on new plug wires if they are old during this job (I did plugs, cap and rotor, but not wires). I am ordering some new ones soon. Having the plugs out makes turning the crankshaft by hand during re-assembly a whole lot easier. I will add a pic of my #6 plug removal rig tomorrow.
NOTE: Removal of #6 plug was simple. Use a spark plug socket for the NGK plugs (smaller one, test on plug to guarantee fit), one 6" extension, an articulating joint with 2" of electrical tape wrapped around the joint to keep it from flopping (all this stuff is 3/8"), and two 3" extensions and your 3/8" ratchet. Came out with no effort at all, and I never even saw the plug or area. # 2 and # 4 were tougher to grab, but still not too bad compared to back plugs on GM V8s from the '80s. A step stool to stand on helps a good bit for the reach for this.
The cam seals were fine, or at least not leaking, which = fine in my book. The crank seal was leaking on my truck, though, and getting off the crank gear took a while. Lots of penetrating oil, taps with a rubber mallet, and gentle prying. Still damaged the rear washer (between gear and seal) from prying and had to pound it flat best I could. Order this washer behind the crank gear from Nissan if you plan on changing this seal as you'll probably bend it a bit while prying off the gear. If you can tell your crank seal is leaking by a oily lower cover, order this washer. It is, however, almost impossible to tell until you get the timing covers off, which will set you back days, so order the washer (I'd guess $2-$4 washer in advance if you do this job). It is keyed, so you need OEM. I would have replaced mine if I knew removal would damage it.
Crank bolt (at least on my truck) needed pneumatic force to remove. I was moving the truck back and forth in 3rd gear with the parking brake on when using a breaker bar. Pneumatic gun made short work of the crank bolt, but I'm sure penetrating oil helped a bit. Added some blue Locktite to the crank bolt threads when re-assembling.
The timing belt I got had one mark that was kind of between teeth. This threw me off and freaked me out a bit, even though the cam and crank marks were lining up after every revolution. The timing marks on the belt are only accurate for installation, they will not line up after 2 rotations, or 4, or 7, or 18, etc. I have no idea how many spins it takes to have them match up again with the cam and crank marks, but I think a lot, due to obvious factors if you think about it.
Finding the torque specs for certain items was a total pain, despite having two Chiltons and one Haynes manual. I found most, but it was a time drain. Make notes from Dr. Bill's write up, he did a lot of the hard work for this task.
Timing belt tension. I had no specialized tools and ended up going with the "it should twist to 90 degrees between the cam gears with two fingers" rule. I think this should be more like 85 degrees. My belt whines a bit now. Maybe it'll break in, or maybe it'll only last 62K, I don't know, but I'm not going back in there to loosen it. And the rule of the Allen wrench tensioner hole being at 5 O'clock, hmm. Mine was at around 5:30 and still seems a bit tight. With my combo of parts, I'd say best is around 5:45. Your mileage may vary with different combinations of parts (aftermarket belt and tensioner w/ OEM spring in my case).
The WP gasket didn't line up on one of the holes toward the passenger (non-pump area side) and I had to trim it, it was about 1/2 of the hole off. Not impressed with the manufacturing specs there.
The drain cock on my radiator was stuck and I decided not to force it and just loosen the lower hose to drain as a preventive measure for longevity (why break it if it's not leaking?). My radiator cooling fins are steel (OEM?), though, and are rotting away, so that will need to be replaced in the future. As I gently hosed it off, some of them were crumbling away. Heavy water pressure can bend fins, but if they are rusty, low water pressure will massage them away gently
I used the Permatex water pump and t-stat housing sealant (gray) stuff and the Permatex specs for tightening the housing vs. manual specs were way off (some lb. ft. measurement in the manual vs. 1 and a half turn per the Permatex specs) so I split the difference. Okay, I'm lying, I snugged those ba**ards up till they were good and snug.
I ended up using most of my factory Nissan hose clamps for the rad hoses, but used a stainless steel worm drive clamp for one of the hoses and realized I should have updated them all. The worm drive clamps are like butter, the Nissan 2-wire clamps are like...not butter.
I'll post some pics up tomorrow. Still tired and dehydrated but happy she's running and hopefully more efficient.
I went with a mix of OEM Nissan parts and the eBay kit. I did not end up changing that elbow hose behind the rear timing cover for the cams (kind of wish I did, but the cam seals seemed okay and so I did not pull them or the rear cover, which allows access to said hose) and also did not change the stud for the t-belt tensioner (seemed fine). All the ordered parts seemed to work well and fit well, except the WP gasket, see below.
Some notable pains in the arse were:
Upon removal, the spark plug wires left most of the metal contacts on the end of the plugs, ripping them off the wire itself, despite visible evidence of dielectric grease being used. Probably lost 30-40 minutes rebuilding them. 4 of 6 came out like that. Throw on new plug wires if they are old during this job (I did plugs, cap and rotor, but not wires). I am ordering some new ones soon. Having the plugs out makes turning the crankshaft by hand during re-assembly a whole lot easier. I will add a pic of my #6 plug removal rig tomorrow.
NOTE: Removal of #6 plug was simple. Use a spark plug socket for the NGK plugs (smaller one, test on plug to guarantee fit), one 6" extension, an articulating joint with 2" of electrical tape wrapped around the joint to keep it from flopping (all this stuff is 3/8"), and two 3" extensions and your 3/8" ratchet. Came out with no effort at all, and I never even saw the plug or area. # 2 and # 4 were tougher to grab, but still not too bad compared to back plugs on GM V8s from the '80s. A step stool to stand on helps a good bit for the reach for this.
The cam seals were fine, or at least not leaking, which = fine in my book. The crank seal was leaking on my truck, though, and getting off the crank gear took a while. Lots of penetrating oil, taps with a rubber mallet, and gentle prying. Still damaged the rear washer (between gear and seal) from prying and had to pound it flat best I could. Order this washer behind the crank gear from Nissan if you plan on changing this seal as you'll probably bend it a bit while prying off the gear. If you can tell your crank seal is leaking by a oily lower cover, order this washer. It is, however, almost impossible to tell until you get the timing covers off, which will set you back days, so order the washer (I'd guess $2-$4 washer in advance if you do this job). It is keyed, so you need OEM. I would have replaced mine if I knew removal would damage it.
Crank bolt (at least on my truck) needed pneumatic force to remove. I was moving the truck back and forth in 3rd gear with the parking brake on when using a breaker bar. Pneumatic gun made short work of the crank bolt, but I'm sure penetrating oil helped a bit. Added some blue Locktite to the crank bolt threads when re-assembling.
The timing belt I got had one mark that was kind of between teeth. This threw me off and freaked me out a bit, even though the cam and crank marks were lining up after every revolution. The timing marks on the belt are only accurate for installation, they will not line up after 2 rotations, or 4, or 7, or 18, etc. I have no idea how many spins it takes to have them match up again with the cam and crank marks, but I think a lot, due to obvious factors if you think about it.
Finding the torque specs for certain items was a total pain, despite having two Chiltons and one Haynes manual. I found most, but it was a time drain. Make notes from Dr. Bill's write up, he did a lot of the hard work for this task.
Timing belt tension. I had no specialized tools and ended up going with the "it should twist to 90 degrees between the cam gears with two fingers" rule. I think this should be more like 85 degrees. My belt whines a bit now. Maybe it'll break in, or maybe it'll only last 62K, I don't know, but I'm not going back in there to loosen it. And the rule of the Allen wrench tensioner hole being at 5 O'clock, hmm. Mine was at around 5:30 and still seems a bit tight. With my combo of parts, I'd say best is around 5:45. Your mileage may vary with different combinations of parts (aftermarket belt and tensioner w/ OEM spring in my case).
The WP gasket didn't line up on one of the holes toward the passenger (non-pump area side) and I had to trim it, it was about 1/2 of the hole off. Not impressed with the manufacturing specs there.
The drain cock on my radiator was stuck and I decided not to force it and just loosen the lower hose to drain as a preventive measure for longevity (why break it if it's not leaking?). My radiator cooling fins are steel (OEM?), though, and are rotting away, so that will need to be replaced in the future. As I gently hosed it off, some of them were crumbling away. Heavy water pressure can bend fins, but if they are rusty, low water pressure will massage them away gently
I used the Permatex water pump and t-stat housing sealant (gray) stuff and the Permatex specs for tightening the housing vs. manual specs were way off (some lb. ft. measurement in the manual vs. 1 and a half turn per the Permatex specs) so I split the difference. Okay, I'm lying, I snugged those ba**ards up till they were good and snug.
I ended up using most of my factory Nissan hose clamps for the rad hoses, but used a stainless steel worm drive clamp for one of the hoses and realized I should have updated them all. The worm drive clamps are like butter, the Nissan 2-wire clamps are like...not butter.
I'll post some pics up tomorrow. Still tired and dehydrated but happy she's running and hopefully more efficient.
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Johnny Haywire
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:02 pm
- Location: Chicago
FYI, you /can/ replace the 90 degree coolant bypass line thing without removing the rear timing cover. Taking the air cleaner off and the distributor out helps, and it kind of sucks, but you can do it with the rear cover on. So, if you need/want to, you can get it done.
FWIW, I know this because this last February my timing belt let go and the valves got munched, so a buddy and I slowly repaired the engine, replacing all the gaskets and what not, and after we got it all back together, I had a pesky coolant leak coming from somewhere, couldn't tell where it was coming from, and eventually found it was that hose. We were able to replace it without removing the rear timing cover. Which was awesome because I didn't want to have to dig into it that much again, heh.
FWIW, I know this because this last February my timing belt let go and the valves got munched, so a buddy and I slowly repaired the engine, replacing all the gaskets and what not, and after we got it all back together, I had a pesky coolant leak coming from somewhere, couldn't tell where it was coming from, and eventually found it was that hose. We were able to replace it without removing the rear timing cover. Which was awesome because I didn't want to have to dig into it that much again, heh.
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Johnny Haywire
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:02 pm
- Location: Chicago
Thanks for the heads-up on the other way in with that hose, Hermit! I do appreciate it.
I'm hoping she holds for a while longer, but it did have the original clamps on it (argh).
On a separate but leak-related note, I noticed that when I park the truck on an incline (with the rear end higher), there's a bit of a leak from either the front diff or the transfer case. Going to investigate further tomorrow, but I definitely want to give it some attention, even if only topping off the cases or changing the oil in them to make sure they aren't starved.
I'm hoping she holds for a while longer, but it did have the original clamps on it (argh).
On a separate but leak-related note, I noticed that when I park the truck on an incline (with the rear end higher), there's a bit of a leak from either the front diff or the transfer case. Going to investigate further tomorrow, but I definitely want to give it some attention, even if only topping off the cases or changing the oil in them to make sure they aren't starved.
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