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Death Roll -- Changing the problem with a solution
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PF Flyer



Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 16
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:43 pm    Post subject: Death Roll -- Changing the problem with a solution Reply with quote

So, one week into ownership I have already experienced what some of you call the "death roll" while on the highway hitting some bumps. I thought the Pathy was trying to get rid of me.

To keep it simple, I have seen many suggest Airlift 1000, some suggest Bilstein (4600), and I have seen Bilstein (5100) as well as Moog rear springs. I do not have a lift but do see the 5100 look adjustable.

Will upgrading to the Bilsteins (4600) do the trick to reduce the roll or are there a combination of parts and factors that need to be changed to solve this issue?

Thanks
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smj999smj
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Joined: 22 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main issue isn't so much the rear shocks, but the weak factory coil springs...but, of course, if your rear shocks are bad, it will make matters worse. Initially, people would swap out the stock rear shocks for Bilstein 4600 shocks AND install Airlift 1000 air bags. The air bags prevented the rear suspension from bottoming-out over bumps, as well as kept the rear end from sagging excessively when towing or loaded down. The Bilstein 5100 was used on those that were installing lift kits.
Later on, Moog came out with a set of stock replacement springs that were much better than the originals. The air bags were not needed with these springs, but, were/are worth keeping if one tows a trailer.
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PF Flyer



Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 16
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smj999smj wrote:
The main issue isn't so much the rear shocks, but the weak factory coil springs...but, of course, if your rear shocks are bad, it will make matters worse. Initially, people would swap out the stock rear shocks for Bilstein 4600 shocks AND install Airlift 1000 air bags. The air bags prevented the rear suspension from bottoming-out over bumps, as well as kept the rear end from sagging excessively when towing or loaded down. The Bilstein 5100 was used on those that were installing lift kits.
Later on, Moog came out with a set of stock replacement springs that were much better than the originals. The air bags were not needed with these springs, but, were/are worth keeping if one tows a trailer.


So would you suggest doing Moog springs AND Bilstein shocks or start somewhere else and start checking things off the list? I will rarely if ever really be towing anything, I more more just concerned about my everyday highway driving quality of ride.
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underworld1001



Joined: 27 Nov 2016
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Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If money is an issue, the springs are the cheapest and easiest to change. Start with those first. I would also change out the rear sway bar bushings. They're cheap. Goes with OEM on those. They're the same price as aftermarket. If that still doesn't get the ride to an acceptable level, then do the rear shocks.
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PF Flyer



Joined: 24 Jan 2019
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

underworld1001 wrote:
If money is an issue, the springs are the cheapest and easiest to change. Start with those first. I would also change out the rear sway bar bushings. They're cheap. Goes with OEM on those. They're the same price as aftermarket. If that still doesn't get the ride to an acceptable level, then do the rear shocks.


I have Airlift on order and will be hunting down some sway bar bushings around town. I figure I will start from the cheapest possible fixes first and work my way up the list.
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smj999smj
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Joined: 22 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say the air bags are a lot cheaper and easier than replacing the coil springs. If you get involved in replacing springs, a lot of times you find bolts that have seized to the bushing sleeves, meaning they have to be cut out. Air bag kits usually run around $80 for the set. Most can install an Airlift 1000 kit in well under an hour. If the back end is really bad, I would highly suggest replacing the rear shocks, as well. If you don't want to spend the money on Bilstein shocks, just get a good monotube shock, like KYB Gas-a-just or Monroe Reflex.
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underworld1001



Joined: 27 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, yeah, smj is right...again. Smile

The airbags are easier to install/remove. I must have reflected on my experience in which I had 1 seized shock bolt that eventually came loose. I gave up and wanted to cut it off, but my brother broke it loose after fighting it for about 20 minutes.
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2011 SV V6 - BF Goodrich KO2 LT265/75 17-C, StopTech slotted rotors (934.42044), free air box mod, Xtreme Truck Performance IMS (http://extremetruckperformance.com/?page_id=6), Bilstein 4600's (F-24-197427 / R-24-197434), Moog springs (F-81280 / R-81119 ), CSF aluminum radiator (7029)
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PF Flyer



Joined: 24 Jan 2019
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smj999smj wrote:
I would say the air bags are a lot cheaper and easier than replacing the coil springs. If you get involved in replacing springs, a lot of times you find bolts that have seized to the bushing sleeves, meaning they have to be cut out. Air bag kits usually run around $80 for the set. Most can install an Airlift 1000 kit in well under an hour. If the back end is really bad, I would highly suggest replacing the rear shocks, as well. If you don't want to spend the money on Bilstein shocks, just get a good monotube shock, like KYB Gas-a-just or Monroe Reflex.


SMJ, thanks for the tips. I have Airlift showing up today as well as some sway bar bushings. I will put those in tomorrow and see how she rides after that. If still not up to snuff, will be doing some KYB gas-a-justs in the near future.

I am fairly confident the Airlift will help enough* to suit my driving needs for a while though.
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smj999smj
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope so. The bolts on the rear shocks can be a real bear to remove! I forget the exact torque spec, but it was well over 100 lb/ft! I think it was 135 or close to it?
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Code Pathfinder



Joined: 18 May 2017
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Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ended up having a shop do my shocks. I broke the 1/2 drive square clean off!

The shop did my Bilsteins for around $120. They were even generous enough to put anti seize on the shock bolts as well. Most shops around me dont do that Mad

Impact Wrench and heat will be your best friend if you attempt to do this job.
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palmerwmd
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how does it drive now, with the new shocks? : )
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PF Flyer



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmerwmd wrote:
So how does it drive now, with the new shocks? : )


Put the Airlift and new sway bar bushings in yesterday evening. Just went for a short drive and can already tell there is an improvement. Won't really know until I get up to highway speeds which is where I could really feel it before.

Should have a better idea tonight and tomorrow as I drive around a little more.
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Thupertrooper



Joined: 15 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keep us posted
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xpath



Joined: 06 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject: what is this death roll Reply with quote

thing that you guys are talking about?

One thing I noticed immediately when I got my Pathy was how stable it was at hwy speeds, 80-90 mph. My point of reference is the 2011 Xterra i used to have, compared to the Xterra the pathfinder rides very smooth and stable on the hwy.

But then my Odyssey feels a lot more planted and secure at high speeds, well of course it sits much lower with a much longer wheel base.
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palmerwmd
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:21 pm    Post subject: Re: what is this death roll Reply with quote

xpath wrote:
thing that you guys are talking about?

One thing I noticed immediately when I got my Pathy was how stable it was at hwy speeds, 80-90 mph. My point of reference is the 2011 Xterra i used to have, compared to the Xterra the pathfinder rides very smooth and stable on the hwy.

But then my Odyssey feels a lot more planted and secure at high speeds, well of course it sits much lower with a much longer wheel base.


I think he has (had?) a worn suspension .
I agree the Pathfinder does real well at speed. Its surprising how much better than the Xterra ( I own both)
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